Laura Jones: 00:11
Every time a new technology emerges, marketers are often first in line to rush to implement it. And that's great. Marketers are the center of innovation. They're listening to what people want, and they want to deliver best in class experiences and solutions. But what if it kind of got a little bit too much about the technology and there needs to be something else behind it?

Laura Jones: 00:37
Many times, leading digital transformation becomes all about the speeds in the feeds, the platforms, and of course, any good marketer knows that transformation involves the human aspect of change. But what if we actually thought about the transformation as a human evolving capability? What if humanity was evolving as a capability? I've got someone here today with me, Javier Meza, Europe's CMO of The Coca Cola Company. And he has so many great ideas and extensive experience in this area.

Laura Jones: 01:13
And I'm so excited to talk to him. Welcome to the party, Javier.

Javier Meza: 01:16
Thank you so much, Laura. Happy to be here and yeah, happy to talk about technology and humans.

Laura Jones: 01:21
Yes. Yeah. So, let's talk about technology and humans and just get right into it. How has technology and humans, you've led a lot of transformation over your twenty-seven years at The Coca Cola Company. Take me on a little bit of journey.

Laura Jones: 01:35
What was the first time you can really understand how a technology impacted the way that you do marketing?

Javier Meza: 01:43
Well, when I started doing marketing 20, no more than that, before COVID, thirty-one years ago, it was internet was emerging in Latin America. Of course, no smartphones. And basically, we wouldn't do plans with massive media, TV, outdoors, radio. And imagine after a couple of years, I remember doing the first SMS promotion with Diet Coke in Argentina, so embracing technology. But for me what's important is really understanding why we do things as important as how we do things.

Javier Meza: 02:16
And this why is about understanding humans and understanding humans' needs, wants, desires, fears, behavior, and using technology to deliver what they want in a better way.

Laura Jones: 02:29
That is such a pertinent point, especially for marketers, because oftentimes we can lose sight of that. We get into this little give me one of those types of mentality. But not you. You always keep that insight at the heart of what you're doing. So, we're in 2025.

Laura Jones: 02:47
We are about to hear the word AI. If I had a dollar for every time we're going to hear it, we would be million billionaires. But it's an everyday vernacular. People have it in their pockets. It's integrated with Siri.

Laura Jones: 03:01
And there's once again this race to implement technology. What are your thoughts around AI and your approach as to how this is going to impact your work at Coca Cola Company?

Javier Meza: 03:13
So, and let me do the analogy in this, right? Yeah. Back to those days where internet was emerging. Some of us were still trying to figure out, is this going to be massive? Is this going to be for everyone?

Javier Meza: 03:25
Or is it going to be more for the academics and the military? It's going to be present in our lives. And now today, it's not only internet, its Wi-Fi, you know, the connectivity is like oxygen, it's like air, it's out there for most of the human beings. I believe AI is going to be the same. We're still at the beginnings of this journey, but I have no doubt that in ten years this is going to be part of our everyday lives and therefore our jobs and marketing.

Javier Meza: 03:55
Of course. Again, what's important for me is also to understand what is not changing and what will not change. Because when I think the big mistakes that you can do as a professional marketing in this case is to confuse strategy with technology, to confuse purpose with technology, to confuse objectives with technology. Technology is the enabler and of course can expand any of the previous one, make you dream bigger. But you still need to understand the why and the things that are not changing so you can apply the things that are changing to deliver that.

Javier Meza: 04:30
And this is something that as you said, yes, it's constantly in my head. As I go through this transformation, I keep thinking what are the things we can still change to make it bigger, better, and we can go deeper into that in a second. But at the same time, I keep asking myself, what are the things that I'm not changing? That's very important as well.

Laura Jones: 04:51
Yeah. What do you think some of those things are?

Javier Meza: 04:54
So, at the end of the day, marketing, you know, I really believe marketing is this, I call it the value exchange engine. At the end of the day, marketing, the function, our job is understand humans and create value for humans. And we create value for humans in the sense of consumers, but also other stakeholders, and that's what we call the humanized growth. But also, in that in doing that, we can bring value to the organization. So, we keep exchanging value.

Javier Meza: 05:23
We create value for others and bring value to the organization. And who is at the center of that is marketing. And that has been the case over the last hundred years at Coke, and it's going to continue to be the case. How we do that keeps changing. How we do that exchange of value is what is really exciting to see how technology is making that more exciting, more efficient.

Javier Meza: 05:49
Yeah, more exciting and more efficient.

Laura Jones: 05:51
More exciting and more efficient. So, you have lived all over the world. As I was doing the background research on you and just looking at all of the different places, it struck me that the way that people adapt technology very much may have to do with the cultural nuances. And so, what have you learned about just being so global in your many, many roles? And what do you think we can take forward within the marketing community to keep this in mind as something that has this game changing global impact, like AI, comes more and more a part of our lives?

Javier Meza: 06:25
Yeah, it's so true. And one of the things I learned by moving so much, you know, in my seven years with Coke, I never stayed more than two, three years in the same country. So, I was changing countries. And it was fascinating because you train your brain to identify the commonalities and the differences, and both matters. When you have a global business with global brands, you need to understand both.

Javier Meza: 06:51
What are the things that are the same and what are the things that are different? And usually, the things that are the same are these deeper motivations, the deeper values, the deeper needs. Of course they are expressed in different ways. And of course, in some countries technology plays different roles, or the pace of adoption is different. But at the end of the day when you see the motivation behind the technology adoption, usually it's the same.

Javier Meza: 07:16
Know, the values and the needs are very similar across cultures, across geographies, across socioeconomic levels, across age cohorts. Right? The way it is used, the way it is expressed is different.

Laura Jones: 07:28
So, working for a global company like the Coca Cola Company, you just mentioned the idea that there's so many universal things that unite us but also divide us. Has it ever been challenging to get various regions or parts of the world and the company to see eye to eye? I find oftentimes many big companies like to point out the differences more than similarities, and I really liked your approach about the unifying elements. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Javier Meza: 07:54
It's very interesting. And let me connect with my background because I am a chemical engineer before being a marketer. So yeah, I went to college and did chemical engineering. And there is this concept of entropy, which is basically that in the absence of work effort, the world tends apart, the universe tends apart, the universe is going apart. And that happens also in organizations, right?

Javier Meza: 08:16
In order to bring people together and ask them to collaborate and do things together, you need to invest energy. So, the nature of humans is to feel that we are so different. I've been in so many markets and seeing things from even from other brands that say, only in Spain this happens. And I'm like, no, I've seen that in Ecuador. Or you go to Peru, ah, only in Peru you see this.

Javier Meza: 08:39
No, I saw that in Canada. But we really believe that we are different. We like to believe that everyone is different than others. So, the nature is to go apart. A lot of my effort has been always to bring people together and show to them how similar we are.

Javier Meza: 08:54
And to do global projects that can be scaled, you have to start with the commonalities. If you start discussing differences, you will never, never, ever do anything. So, I always try to minimize differences at the beginning of the projects, start working on things that are common, but always leaving some flexibility, modularity for the last mine to be localized. This is very important in marketing.

Laura Jones: 09:19
So, you know what my next question's going to be, do you?

Javier Meza: 09:21
Please.

Laura Jones: 09:22
How did you make the leap from chemical engineering to marketing? You're the second engineer that we've had on the show that was an engineer, we had a civil engineer into marketing. How was your journey?

Javier Meza: 09:33
I worked one year as a chemical engineer. And then after that, I went for an interview in an American company, Werner Lumber. And in that interview, one of the interviewers was the marketing manager of this company in Ecuador. And this person after the process says, hey, we can hire you to do a process engineer intern or marketing intern. Come with me, I'll teach you.

Javier Meza: 09:55
And I say, Yep, let's go. And that was thirty-one years ago, yeah.

Laura Jones: 10:00
Wow.

Javier Meza: 10:01
A long time.

Laura Jones: 10:01
Sometimes just angel Follow like intuition.

Javier Meza: 10:05
This is one of the things, for example, when you think about AI and how humans need to leverage AI, I still believe that intuition is a big part. And I have not seen yet, maybe it's coming, but I have not seen yet, yet machine learning that can mimic intuition, right? Human intuition? Not yet.

Laura Jones: 10:24
So, you talk about a concept. It's really, really intriguing to me, and I'm sure it's going to be interesting to a lot of people listening and watching. The idea of AI and HI. Can you talk about that?

Javier Meza: 10:37
Yes. And it's something that we've been discussing a lot inside Coke. And I'm going to compliment and answer your question, but one of the things I keep repeating to my teams and myself is there is no doubt that AI and gen AI is going to disrupt how we do things, how we live. There's no doubt. The “how” is going to be disrupted.

Javier Meza: 10:59
The why will not. And the why is still about making humans more happy, helping humans achieve what they need, what they want, what they dream of. And that's what I think this concept of HI which is human I talk about HI in the ways of human ingenuity, human intuition, human intelligence, but also in the way of hi. And the reason I say hi is because a smile and a hi, and we like to say and a coke, can bring people together. So, I really like the idea of, yes, AI is going to be super important, but the high that bring people together and use the technology is as important as that.

Laura Jones: 11:40
So, Coke is a really experiential brand, and experience plays a big role not only in Coke, but overall, at the entire Coca Cola company. Can you tell us about a time that experience was made better by technology?

Javier Meza: 11:59
Well, yes, I can give you a couple of examples. So, imagine years ago when we started implementing coolers in the point of sale. You know, the idea of drinking an ice-cold Coke at the right temperature, that makes the experience better. And that was enabled by technology and technology that was as technology scale, the cost decline and you can use technology more. So that's an old version of that.

Javier Meza: 12:28
We have today in many places this, what we call the freestyle, which is basically the ability for consumers to customize the beverage. You go and select Sprite Fanta Diet Coke and then you can put additional flavors on top of it. That's technology helping make the experience better. But when I think the future of that, I really believe that we should be not that far away from the day in which you can do exactly that in your iPhone or Android. You go and say, I want a Coke with this level of caffeine, with this level of sugar, with this level of flavor, and then go to one of these machines, scan a QR code and get the drink exactly the way you want.

Javier Meza: 13:09
The other things we have been doing a lot is in consumer engagement with the brand. We have been using AI to create experiences. Last Christmas we had this program that people could scan the QR code on any Coca Cola package and then you would be having a conversation with Santa. And Santa was asking questions. And based on that conversation, it would create a personalized snow globe.

Javier Meza: 13:34
Which was again just the idea of putting a smile on people's face. That's at the end of the day.

Laura Jones: 13:40
I love those freestyle machines. My favorite combination is I like to make almost like a Shirley Temple like. So, I put a little bit of Fanta, a little bit of cream soda sometimes. I just love to be a mixologist. So those are great.

Laura Jones: 13:56
And also, to bring us back to something so simple like refrigeration. Think of that. When you would ask anyone with the latest technology or even a technology period, how many people would actually say a refrigerator is technology, right? And I think that that's exactly the point that we're making here with AI, right? Is at some point, we say, sure, everyone will be using it every day.

Laura Jones: 14:20
A lot of people, millions, billions of people are using it. But at some point, it's going to become oxygen. It's going to become refrigeration. It's going to become the Internet. And keeping the human ingenuity into it is just something that so many companies need to keep in the forefront in the ways to technology.

Laura Jones: 14:41
And I want to go back to something you said earlier, which is humanized growth and the concept of humanized growth. So, we both share in that we are the Institute for Real Growth IRG alum. Can you tell me a little bit about your time with the program and how you found your experience?

Javier Meza: 14:56
Well, it's very interesting. It was, I think it was right before COVID. And that's also interesting because when COVID happened to all of us, and it looks like a long time ago, I think it was five years ago only, one of the things I personally did is I want to connect to a lot of people outside my industry. Because I had this intuition that that problem we were facing was of course something that in our lifetime we had not experienced before. And some of the answers on how to recover business, brands, consumer engagement were not going to come just from within your own industry.

Javier Meza: 15:32
And one of the benefits of the Institute for Real Growth in my personal case was it allowed me to have a connection and contact with a lot of very smart people from other industries that I could really have conversations and inspiration. Yep.

Laura Jones: 15:46
That community is such a strong part of IRG, absolutely. And you mentioned earlier too about taking into account different stakeholder perspectives. How are you thinking about different stakeholder perspectives when you're running Europe for a Coca Cola company?

Javier Meza: 16:03
It's very important. And in our case, you know, some of those stakeholders are more intuitively close, like of course our retailers. We think a lot about the end consumer, the people that actually drink the products and the beverages. But to get to there, we still have a network of retailers that we call the customers. And we have our bottling partners, and we have the agencies we work with, that beyond that is the community in which we operate and the authorities and the opinion leaders.

Javier Meza: 16:34
We really pay into consideration a lot of those stakeholders when doing the innovation pipeline, we take into consideration them, doing the innovation pipeline, when doing the marketing programs, when doing the communication strategies. And we map all those stakeholders and use this framework of feel, do, think for each one of them. What when they want to feel, do, think.

Laura Jones: 16:58
Now I've used feel, do, think when I've done brand strategy work for the consumer, but the fact that you're doing it inside your organization to map stakeholders, that feels like a big unlock. Is that something that is pervasive throughout all your teams? And how has that helped your teams gain more empathy and collaboration with your stakeholders?

Javier Meza: 17:17
Yeah, it helps. And we really use that with some discipline. And the reason it helps is because we really believe in long term business relationships. We really, I mean, we've been with Coca Cola one hundred and thirty-seven years, something like that, thirty-eight. So, for us, the long-term matters.

Javier Meza: 17:34
And we know that in the long term there's no way to win unless every other one of these stakeholders wins. There's no way.

Laura Jones: 17:42
Yeah, we're kind of all in it together, right?

Javier Meza: 17:44
Yes.

Laura Jones: 17:45
You have time for a quick lightning quiz? A fun break? It's a Yes. Party after right. So, I'm going to ask some quick questions.

Laura Jones: 17:51
Just give me the first answer that comes to mind.

Javier Meza: 17:53
Okay.

Laura Jones: 17:54
Speaking of technology, which technology are we currently overestimating?

Javier Meza: 18:02
I don't want to use the brand, but chat, instant chat on the phone, we all overestimate because sometimes I see that a lot of confusion is created through that technology. And many times, a five-minute conversation around a Coca Cola bottle solves so many things that could take hours on chat, right?

Laura Jones: 18:23
It's kind of a misperception, right? It's deceiving that actually technology really thinks, we can be so much closer to everyone, but sometimes just having a Coke is the way to go. Right? What's one analog marketing practice that you still think has value? And I say analog, I mean, you know, old school.

Javier Meza: 18:46
Yeah. I did last two weeks ago, was in Milan and I had the opportunity to go and see consumers talking. You know, they didn't know I worked for Coke. Said, hey, he's from outside, he's not Italian, he wants to understand Italian people. And I went to see them, it was three, four young people talking about life and beverages and brands, just listening to them.

Javier Meza: 19:08
And of course, big data is so important. But again, understanding and having the curiosity to listen in between lines what people say and don't say is so important.

Laura Jones: 19:21
What's a skill that you've mastered that you think AI can't replace?

Javier Meza: 19:28
Listening, I think that can be replaced. This intuition, I am I am very intuitive. And maybe with a lot of years of experience and having seen so many different environments, intuition is something I use a lot when it comes to marketing ideas. And this is very important because again, back to the notion of AI, NNI is, of course, based on analytics and analytics is based is based on data. Got it.

Javier Meza: 19:54
All of that without creativity, without what if doesn't work in marketing, right? You need to understand the why and the what with the data. But at the end of the day, what's going to move your business is a what if? Why did we do this? And on that, I'm super intuitive.

Laura Jones: 20:12
Amazing. You mentioned you have a daughter who's starting out her career. And I was wondering if you could go back in time and tell maybe not the chemical engineer, but the young marketeer a piece of advice that you wish you had back then, what would you tell yourself? And what would you tell the young people all just starting out their careers in this completely crazy time in the world?

Javier Meza: 20:37
I'd say two things. One is the notion of invest more time and energy learning and practicing leadership. And leadership in a very, very broad way, leading yourself. Now get to know yourself better and lead yourself. Lead people, that's the most difficult job, no doubt.

Javier Meza: 20:56
The most difficult job is leading people. And then leading business. But I would have said to myself, put more energy and brains and practice leadership. And the second one is analytics, right? And I still see today a lot of colleagues that speak about AI and Gen AI and don't really understand that at the center of that is data and analytics.

Javier Meza: 21:20
Still don't.

Laura Jones: 21:21
Yeah. And those of us who are in data analytics know that AI has been in play for a very, very, very long time. So, two great pieces of advice. Now that we're on the topic of career, talk a little bit more. You spent twenty-seven years at Coca Cola Company, thirty-one in marketing.

Laura Jones: 21:39
I want to focus on the longevity that you have spent with one company that's very rare. What has kept you there for so When

Javier Meza: 21:48
I joined Coke, I said I'm going to stay ten years and then go and do something else. I really had this idea. And I still have plans for my after-Coke life. I still have dreams for that; we can talk about that in a second. But the three things are I have three adult kids.

Javier Meza: 22:05
They are 24, 23 and 20. And for me it's very important to look into their eyes and say, “Hey, I work for a company, an organization in which we try to do the right thing every day. We make mistakes, but we make mistakes, we fix them.”
But I was never in these twenty-seven years in any situation that someone suggested, let's take the shortcut. Don't do this.

Javier Meza: 22:28
Don't do that. Ignore this. Never. And on the contrary, sometimes we were even saying, hey, but look, competitors are doing that. And the answer was only, yep, but we are Coca Cola.

Javier Meza: 22:40
We don't take shortcuts. And for me that's very important, right? I have three other kids. I need to feel good about what I do so they feel good about me. The second thing is I've seen the world through Coke.

Javier Meza: 22:55
So this idea of living in so many markets and working in so many markets, that's more than a job, it's a lifestyle, right? It's the ability to go and see humans in different parts of the world and work with them has been very exciting. I never spent more than two, three years in the same country. Never. I was changing and that was like starting again.

Javier Meza: 23:17
Because to my previous point every time I was moved to a new place I was, Okay, what's different, what's similar? And my brain was all the time trying to understand those two things. What's similar, what's different, and therefore how do I adapt my style? I was once leading marketing for Asia Pacific. And I had to be an effective leader in Japan, and the next in India, and the next week in China, Australia, Southeast Asia.

Javier Meza: 23:43
It's a very intellectually challenging job to have, to be effective, right, to do that. And the third thing is the quality of the people I work with, right. When I see them globally, the colleagues I have in all the areas you can imagine, legal, digital, HR, marketing, finance, you name it, operations, very capable people that you can learn from. Yeah.

Laura Jones: 24:06
So, you gave us a little teaser. You told us you're thinking about your dreams, your ambitions.

Javier Meza: 24:12
What's next? Yeah. Well, next, I want to write a book. It's a book about philosophy and marketing, combining philosophy and marketing. I'm taking now as we speak, I'm taking philosophy classes with an Argentinian philosopher and writing classes.

Javier Meza: 24:27
And it's been a very, very exciting journey. One of the things I'm thinking maybe is go deeper into whys, you know, this notion of why, doing some interviews and then processing, maybe using AI to process the interviews. But the book is going to be called Five Why Deep because of this notion that when you ask people five times why in a row, you can go really deep. Yeah, something about that. And then I want to have a bookstore.

Javier Meza: 24:54
I want to have a bookstore. I want to teach classes in university. I will do all of that still. Yeah, I will one day.

Laura Jones: 25:01
We're very similar, Javier. I'm currently taking writing classes, and I'm experimenting with different genres. So first I started out in memoir, and now I moved into comedy writing. So, it's just so fascinating, the whole process. And I really do find that it speaks to a lot of the things that you talked about, right?

Laura Jones: 25:21
Which is contemplation, exploring things from deep and different angles, finding out the deeper insight. And oftentimes people say, I write to think. And I'm sure that really helps you. Do you resonate with that?

Javier Meza: 25:35
For me, it's even I I'm one step before. Maybe I'll get there one day. I still am writing to find myself. I guess so. I'm still in that process of just writing, and then I will one day I will discover what I want to write about.

Laura Jones: 25:49
Yes. Well, you're writing about it now. And writing I love the saying, if you write, you're a writer, and I will keep you and your journey in my mind as I do my writing as Well, that's about all the time we have to party. Are there any exciting new initiatives coming up for Coke that you want to tell our listeners and our audience about?

Javier Meza: 26:11
So, as you can imagine, we have a lot of projects in the pipeline. As we speak, we have Cherry Coke out there with the names, one of my favorites.

Laura Jones: 26:19
Mine too.

Javier Meza: 26:19
We for sure, we'll have some exciting here for Christmas. Next year, have FIFA World Cup. FIFA World Cup is one of the big events and assets opportunities to really create excitement for consumers and fans all over the world. But yeah, we don't disclose many things, but a lot of things coming, yeah.

Laura Jones: 26:38
Amazing. Share Coke is one of my favorites. Every time I see a can with one of my kids' names on it, I buy it. So, increase purchase occasion. And all the kids are saying bro a lot.

Laura Jones: 26:50
So, whenever I see the bro one.

Javier Meza: 26:52
Shedder Coke for me was one of the most surprising programs because I have friends that tell me, hey, you put my name on the Thank you. And I'm no. Didn't. It's we put names on the can, not your name. No.

Javier Meza: 27:04
No. No. No. It was my name. So, it's amazing how name is something that is so personal to us, so close to us, that people see that as the ultimate personalization program.

Javier Meza: 27:13
Amazing. Amazing. Without AI.

Laura Jones: 27:16
Without AI. Yes, that is the

Javier Meza: 27:18
So, the why, remember the why? AI enables things, of course, and technology, but the why, which is connecting with people deep at a deep level, that's the why.

Laura Jones: 27:30
That's the why. Javier, thank you so much for joining me on Opinion Party. This has been so fun. So excited to see as we do at normal parties how much we share in comments, and your amazing thank you all for joining. To get more information about today's episode, definitely check out the show notes.

Laura Jones: 27:49
This is Opinion Party, the marketing podcast, and make sure to like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. See you next time.