Laura Jones: 00:10
It's not personal. It's business. That line has been a virtual get out of jail free card for so many corporations for so long. But what if that wasn't the point? What if that was never the point?

Laura Jones: 00:28
Fundamentally, business is personal. Businesses are made up of people, people doing services and making products for other people, and those products and services are impacting communities. And so inherently, you really can't say that it's not personal. It's so personal. And that's the myth that we're going bust today.

Laura Jones: 00:53
I'm Laura Jones, and this is Opinion Party, the podcast where we dispel the most pervasive myths in marketing. And I'm joined today by a very special guest, Andisa Nitsubani. He is Executive Director of Vodacom Africa Brand Marketing and Communications. Welcome to the party, Andisa.

Andisa Ntsubane: 01:13
It's a pleasure to be here. I'm really, really happy to be here.

Laura Jones: 01:16
So normally, when you do these things, and I'm sure you do a lot of them, sometimes the person there will sit there and read a big, long bio. And you are so accomplished, and we're going get to your many amazing accomplishments. But if I did that today, I would just kind of be summarizing a lot of things in other people's words, in my words, in other people's words. And since we're really getting personal today, I want to just start with the question, who are you? Tell me a little bit about yourself.

Andisa Ntsubane: 01:45
Great. So, I'm Andisa, and I like to call myself an Afro optimist. I'm very passionate about the African continent. And I'm all about advocating trying to make sure that people see the wonderful work that we're doing on the continent and how that work can also be a great learning for other brands and people around the world. And so, it's important for me personally to be at places like where we are today and can, to really advocate for best practice.

Andisa Ntsubane: 02:13
Because, actually, people always say we must look to the world for best practice, but the world can also look to Africa. I am a loving father of one child. We have a child. And my wife is with me this year in Cannes, so we're looking forward to really connecting and kind of work networking with people. And I'm also looking forward to being on the Titanium jury this year, which is really, really exciting.

Andisa Ntsubane: 02:35
It's the creme de la creme of all juries. And the one thing that's really special about it is that unlike other juries, the people actually get to present live in front of the jury, and we get to ask them questions. So, I'm really looking forward to that this week, and I'm really, really special. But of course, it doesn't start until the IRG weekend is complete, and that's why I'm here. And I'm really, really excited about the RRG and the work that it does.

Andisa Ntsubane: 03:03
And I really think that I'm a I'm a beneficiary of the great work that Marc Desoine Arons is doing in the RRG, and that really is about building the community of marketers around the world. And I'm really proud to have been part of that process.

Laura Jones: 03:20
Well, I can see immediately the impact that the IRG has had because without even me prompting, you gave me your ikigai. And it is just an amazing community being an alumni myself and having been back. Just the spirit, the energy of this place, getting to work with great people, meet great people, and really connect with people on a human level. What parts of the IRG program have you said really open you up in a way and connect with people that in other ways and other places that you're not allowed to do, or you just wouldn't feel comfortable doing?

Andisa Ntsubane: 03:56
I think the r g is very special because it's lonely at the top. And as senior marketing leaders, we don't often have people we can talk to about our challenges. And the r g created a wonderful platform for me to connect with like-minded people who are facing similar challenges. And so, I was in the COVID cohort. We did it online.

Andisa Ntsubane: 04:17
And it was wonderful when we broke away into the groups online, to connect with over a 100 CMOs from around the world. And you realize that all of us are facing similar issues, but the connections, the bonds, the ability to give a phone call or an email to one of the community members when you've got a particular issue, that's really unique because I think that it's wonderful to be able to have a community that you can rely on, who can give you advice, but also can guide you, but who also can tell you when you're not doing things the right way. And so best practice insights, I think that's truly, truly special. And so, I talk about, for me, the ROG being this one plus one equals three. A CMO or a marketing leader need meets the ROG and the community, and then an extraordinary outcome happens.

Andisa Ntsubane: 05:02
And that extraordinary outcome is growth for you personally, as a marketing professional. I don't think that you get that quite often. And so, it really is special to me, but it's also special because I had the opportunity to go on a retreat in Panama. And that was a really personal experience, and the objective of the retreat was to help us think about our purpose in life. And it changed my life in terms of thinking about what I want to do and how I want to live my life.

Andisa Ntsubane: 05:33
And I'll forever be grateful for the opportunity and the platform that the r g gave me, to do that. And I had, yeah, as I say, a life changing experience.

Laura Jones: 05:43
Take me back there. That sounds woah. I mean, who doesn't want a life changing experience. Right? Oftentimes in IRG Yeah.

Laura Jones: 05:52
People come; they're at a crossroads Yeah. And then they throw you all together, bury you deep in the jungle, and they say, figure it out. I mean, where were you at that point in your career, in your personal life, as much as you're comfortable discussing, of course? Take me back and then tell me about that transformation.

Andisa Ntsubane: 06:11
Yeah. I was wondering whether you're going ask me to go into it. But, in summary, twenty-four years ago, an American man named Nathan Gray bought hectares and hectares of land in Panama. And twenty-four years ago, there was not one single tree there. And over the past twenty-four years, he's planted over 4,000,000 trees, and today, it's this rainforest.

Andisa Ntsubane: 06:39
And it's a wonderful piece of forest. The animals have come back. Communities live on the land, and it's truly a special place. And so, 23 of us spent five days in the jungle of Panama, and they told us on the Sunday when we arrived that by Friday before we leave, we will share our personal purpose statements with each of the people that were there. But they told us that you can't talk about your purpose if you haven't healed from your past.

Andisa Ntsubane: 07:13
And so Monday and Tuesday, we were healing from the past, and they made us do these incredible exercises. You know, 11:00, for example, on the first day, they told us, think about all the people you need to forgive in your life and walk on your own and verbalize. Laura did this to me. Laura did that to me, but you have to be specific about what Laura did to you. And then when you're done, stop, turn around, and think about Laura from multiple perspectives, not just as a colleague if she was a colleague.

Andisa Ntsubane: 07:45
Think about her as a mother, as a daughter, as someone's sister. Think about them more holistically and then think about why you think Laura did these things to you and what your role in it was, which is really, really important. And then when you're done, walk back. And for everything that you've said, say the words, where you believe it, Laura, I forgive you for this. Laura, I forgive you for that.

Andisa Ntsubane: 08:11
And I'll never forget all the people walking, others crying. And after the two hours, we all regroup when they ask us how that experience was. Oh, so when you walk back, and you're saying the words I forgive you, once you're finished, it's done. It's off your shoulders. It's no longer your problem.

Andisa Ntsubane: 08:30
It's no longer a burden to carry. It stays in Panama. And so, the huge weight of whatever the thing that you had with Laura was now no longer your burden to carry. And so, when we started going back to talk about what and who people needed to forgive, it was absolutely profound, some of the stories of the heartbreak, of the trauma that people went through. And it was amazing to hear the stories.

Andisa Ntsubane: 08:58
And I think that what we shared there on the first day, 23 people we'd never met, was absolutely amazing. And so, the emotional toll on us just on day one, thinking about everything that we've been through was truly a powerful way to connect all of us. And so, day one and day two was healing from the past. Wednesday was where are you now in your life? And they took us through this this model.

Andisa Ntsubane: 09:26
Thursday, we did a six-hour silent hike.

Laura Jones: 09:30
Wow.

Andisa Ntsubane: 09:31
No talking. And then in the evening, they gave us models to think about where we're going in life, Ikigai and four others. And on Friday morning, you shared your draft purpose statement in small groups of three, and I remember sharing mine. And the one lady said to me, that's not your purpose. I said, sorry?

Andisa Ntsubane: 09:52
They said, I'm sorry. I know I've known you for a week, but that's not your purpose at all. It's got it doesn't feel like you at all. And so, you go back, and then you go, interesting, and you rework. And then in the afternoon, you share your purpose statement with the whole group.

Andisa Ntsubane: 10:06
It was life changing. And being in a jungle, thinking about your life and what you want to do with your life was truly an incredible experience. And I had a couple of revelations, one of which was I'm in the last half of my life. And when you know that you have to be intentional about what you want to do with it. And that was a very big moment for me.

Andisa Ntsubane: 10:30
But the reason I tell the story and I tell the story around the world now is that on the first day when we were standing there looking at this land, and Nathan Gray, the American man that did all of this, was telling us why he chose Panama, why this place, why he planted the trees, he said a sentence. And he just said the sentence. I'm not sure if anybody else was listening, but in that sentence was the gift of the three words, which are now the gift of my life. And Nathan Gray said, I'm trying to create something worthy of emulation. I'm trying to create something worthy of emulation.

Andisa Ntsubane: 11:12
And this idea and this concept of being worthy of emulation stayed with me quite deeply, and I started reflecting on it quite deeply. And I started thinking about it in terms of my personal life. Is my life worthy of emulation? Not in material ways, but one day when I leave this earth, will people look at my life and say, there was somebody who truly had congruence. And then I started thinking about it in the context of my work that I do.

Andisa Ntsubane: 11:45
And I landed on this idea that I would try to live a life that is worthy of emulation, But I would also work to help build businesses and brands that are worthy of emulation.

Andisa Ntsubane: 12:02
And that's almost the guiding force behind everything that I do. And the best thing about being worthy is you have to earn it. You've got to consistently every day in your personal life, work hard at it. And in the workplace, you've got to work hard to make sure that you're not just competing with competitors on trivial differences between product attributes. You've got to really focus on how do you do big bold things that'll help people stand back and look at this business and this brand and say, wow.

Andisa Ntsubane: 12:36
Now there's a business that's worthy of emulation. And that all was all because of the RNG. And so, I am truly grateful for what the RRG have given me. And it's unlocked a big step in terms of my future focus and how I live my life.

Laura Jones: 12:58
Wow. How powerful. As you were talking about the walk in the jungle and just forgiveness and empathy, I actually felt myself inhaling and then exhaling and having that weight lifted. And you're such a powerful storyteller and just I'm so happy for you. That is just such an incredible story.

Laura Jones: 13:22
And the way and the words that you used to describe really the alignment of your personal and professional lives, a life worthy of emulation. It speaks legacy. It speaks impact. And just wow, that's really, really powerful. And you went on, right, to not only just write that down on paper, but you went on to truly put that into practice.

Andisa Ntsubane: 13:47
Yeah. So that so there's a couple of things. So, the first thing is the 23 of us are forever connected, the ones that went to Panama. Four of them are here this weekend, so it's truly special to see them. And we have a WhatsApp group.

Andisa Ntsubane: 14:01
We talk almost every day, and that bond is forever there. I think for me, what I did when I came back is I kind of wrote a one pager. So now I have a one pager that guides my life. And in the one pager, it articulates my vision statement. It articulates things I stand for.

Andisa Ntsubane: 14:22
It articulates things I stand against, and I'm quiet, vocal about those things. It talks about my values. And, and this whole idea of the head, the heart, as a core part of how I live my life, which is really, really important. And there's one there also called mood set. There's a wonderful book, called mood set, and I came across this concept.

Andisa Ntsubane: 14:51
And, basically, this gentleman talked about how, he discovered it when he got home, and his kids used to peep into the room to see what his mood was like. And he started realizing the impact on his mood on his family. So, he'd come back angry from work, and then they take it out on his family. And he realized that, actually, mood plays such a fundamental role in everything. And then he did a study on the impact of mood in the workplace and on productivity.

Andisa Ntsubane: 15:25
And, basically, he came to the conclusion that if you set the right moods, it can help to drive productivity. It can help to drive a happier home environment. And the best thing about moods is you control them no matter what happens to you. And so, one of the things around being worthy is also being about setting the right mood and setting the right intentionality to create the environment for conversations that are meaningful, and that'll help to take the business and solutions forward. And so that's been a core part of the storyline around being worthy.

Andisa Ntsubane: 16:00
And I and as I say, I work on it every single day. One of the big things, though, was that in my aspiration to drive the Africa agenda globally, I was quite intentional about doing that. And so, one of the first steps was to be intentional about Cannes, and I got appointed onto the jury, in b to b.

Laura Jones: 16:25
Jury president. Right?

Andisa Ntsubane: 16:26
I was first a jury member, so I was a normal jury member. And I was quite I had impostor syndrome When I first joined the jury member. And there were some jury members who had been on the jury for many years. It was my first time and so I created a little bit of trouble.

Laura Jones: 16:48
No. You? I created

Andisa Ntsubane: 16:52
a little bit of trouble. So, there were two things that happened there. So, the first thing that happened was we judged in B2B 500 pieces of work from around the world, not one from Africa. And I started asking the question, why? Like, why wouldn't there be one?

Andisa Ntsubane: 17:10
And I realized that for many developing countries, the cost of entering and submitting awards is just prohibitive. You know? And I started talking about should there be another methodology, another model, funding model to help also bring some of these developing countries more access, and that was quite an interesting conversation. But, also, you've got to have a representative on the other side because, people who are judging work also need to understand the context of the work. And so even African, submissions weren't winning.

Andisa Ntsubane: 17:42
And that's because the people that are jury members, there's no one from Africa who can give the context to the work. And so, I think we've moved quite a big step ahead. And so, this year, there are 22 Africans that are sitting on juries across all the different jury categories, which I think is a great step forward in terms of that representivity. And then the second thing that happened was there was a piece of work that I really, really liked on the jury. And one of the jury members said, this work's been done before.

Andisa Ntsubane: 18:14
This concept's been done before.

Laura Jones: 18:15
Our favorite phrase as marketers.

Andisa Ntsubane: 18:17
And then I was like, I was actually unhappy, and I expressed my unhappiness. And I basically said that all of us have got to believe got to go into that room believing that the Cannes Lions team have done their work. You can't bring new information into the room because otherwise, like, where will this thing end? And so, so I was very unhappy about that, and I raised it. And I said the integrity of the process is most important.

Andisa Ntsubane: 18:47
And, and so I thought that my unhappiness would have really made the Cairns people unhappy. And I thought I'd never be invited back, and the next year they made me the president. So

Laura Jones: 19:05
Spoiler alert.

Andisa Ntsubane: 19:07
So, I was president of B2B last year, the first African president ever, so I was quite humbled by that. And it was a fantastic journey to lead a group of jurors from around the world from diverse backgrounds and really help to really raise and elevate the role that b two b plays. And I think b two b is so, so, so underappreciated. And I think b to b marketers are underappreciated for the work that they do. And I think as a general statement, the power of b to b is absolutely phenomenal.

Andisa Ntsubane: 19:42
And I tell people that the world's biggest problems from climate change to racism to the threat of deepfake to poverty are all most likely going to be solved by b two b brands. And it is fantastic to see some really powerful work in Cannes by b-to-b brands that are really helping to solve some of the world's largest issues. And that's why I talk about leadership brands taking leadership positions as a core part of a winning formula for brands moving into the future. And just one that I'll call out is, a big campaign by DP World. And, basically, they're a shipping company, And the global temperature for over the last 200 since the beginning of time for shipping food around the world is at minus 18 degrees.

Andisa Ntsubane: 20:36
So, all shipping companies ship food around the world at minus 18. And DP World asked the game changing question, why must it be minus 18? And so they why? And they did research and partnered with universities. And long and short of it is they came to the conclusion that you could ship the same food with no impact at a temperature of minus fifteen, three degrees warmer than minus 18.

Andisa Ntsubane: 21:10
The impact of moving it to minus 15 was phenomenal in terms of its impact. From a climate change point of view, they say it's the equivalent of taking 3,800,000 cars off the road every year. And on carbon emissions, the scale of it and the best part of it all, it costs nothing.

Laura Jones: 21:32
Nothing?

Andisa Ntsubane: 21:33
Nothing. You just move the temperature to minus 15. And so, they launched it at COP twenty-eight or COP thirty. I'm not sure which one. And it's been a big movement, and they've had 70% of the shipping industry sign up within the first six months.

Andisa Ntsubane: 21:49
And that move to really play a significant role on a big issue like climate change is truly phenomenal, and that's a b-to-b company. And I think that, it's really been amazing to see what brands and how brands are showing up in service of helping to address big social issues that are facing the world and environmental issues that are facing the world, but they also impact the business. Right? Because it's good for the business as well if the world is a more sustainable place. And I think that's the point around how do you create this balance between solving for business issues whilst helping to address social issues.

Andisa Ntsubane: 22:31
And I always tell people that the most successful companies in the world solve problems, and they make a ton load of money doing that. And when people ask me why I'm so passionate about the African continent, I say to them, Africa's got the most problems. So, in fact, we represent the single largest opportunity for businesses to solve problems and make a ton a lot of money. So, there's a there's a symbiotic relationship between problem solving, but also helping to drive the sustainability of the business. And so, in our world, one of the things that we are certainly most proud of is the creation of a solution called M Pesa, which is a mobile money payment solution.

Andisa Ntsubane: 23:18
And we launched it in Kenya in 02/2007, and it was solving a need for people to send money to each other. And today, it is by far one of the most successful case studies of mobile money payments in the world. We have 85,000,000 customers on the platform, and we are having 1,200,000,000.0 US dollars transactions daily on that platform.

Laura Jones: 23:43
Daily?

Andisa Ntsubane: 23:44
Daily.

Laura Jones: 23:45
1,200,000,000.0. Wow.

Andisa Ntsubane: 23:48
And it's the standard. You use it to pay for everything, and you use it to send money. And as you know, in Africa, the cost of traveling to a place to pay, now it's all on your mobile device. And so, the whole point around solving intense customer needs whilst creating an opportunity for business is what is going to be the formula for success because it's shared value. Right?

Andisa Ntsubane: 24:19
You're creating a solution. You're solving a customer need. You are driving environmental impact. You're also helping the economy, and that really is the formula for success. So, so I'm really, really, you know, proud and excited to have been on this journey to really help to think about how one uses, personal purpose, alignment of business to help drive and shift that agenda.

Andisa Ntsubane: 24:48
And, and so one of the things that I spoke about at the welcoming here was I was very fortunate to have been announced as the winner of the ROG program. The 100 CMOs vote for the winner each year, and that's truly special because you're being recognized by your own peers. And my peers recognized me as the winner for 2021.

Laura Jones: 25:12
The champion. The champion. The IRG, humanized growth champion.

Andisa Ntsubane: 25:19
I will I won it. But I won it because during COVID, I worked for the largest insurance company on the African continent called Old Mutual. And when COVID happened, this had a direct impact on our business. And so, one of the big decisions was about what we were going do. And most people don't know that Africa is probably the most impacted by COVID.

Andisa Ntsubane: 25:42
And what people also don't know is that in some of our markets on the continent, people didn't get vaccines for free. They had to pay for

Laura Jones: 25:49
them. Wow.

Andisa Ntsubane: 25:50
And so, having been in the RIG program at the time, talking about humanized growth, I realized how can you have humanized growth if you don't have humans? And that was the big epiphany. And therefore, we started a conversation around, I made a call that I would be willing to give up marketing budgets in those markets where we didn't have, free vaccines, and we'd use that money to pay for vaccines for our customers. And we built a business case. We agreed which cohorts of customers we would start with, the ones with comorbidities and the ones that are most vulnerable first.

Andisa Ntsubane: 26:33
And that was a game changer in terms of, in the first instance, helping to save lives. But number two, it wasn't philanthropy. It was also about the long-term sustainability of our business. Because if those customers are alive, we could our business could be sustainable. And so, the symbiotic relationship between making decisions like that in service of humanized growth, but also in service of making sure that the business is sustainable is certainly a big game change for me in terms of just how to think about some of those solutions.

Laura Jones: 27:11
That story right there just blew the doors off the myth single handedly. I mean, how could you say it's not business, it's personal, when, again, the people are really at the heart, and they're driving the business? Andisa, I could talk to you for seventeen more hours. We could keep this party going all night long. But I think we're out of time, and spending this time with you together has been so special.

Laura Jones: 27:40
You are such an asset to the IRG community. When you speak and I see you with the other leaders and the current cohort, people listen. And you use your voice for good. And I just wanted to say thank you for that so much.

Andisa Ntsubane: 27:54
I'm truly blessed. There's no other way to put it. And I've been truly fortunate to meet some wonderful and amazing people and to also learn from wonderful and amazing people. And I think together, we can really all work collectively much harder to reposition the function of marketing, but also to help move our businesses forward, and that really is a wonderful place to be. And so, as I end, there's a story that is well known that in the nineteen forties, two Dutch shoemaking companies sent their sales reps to Uganda to look for opportunities.

Andisa Ntsubane: 28:34
And after six months, the first sales rep phoned head office and said, I'm coming home. Nobody wears shoes. The other sales rep phoned head office and said, Bring everybody. We're going open up a factory here. Nobody wears shoes.

Andisa Ntsubane: 28:53
Two people, one environment where one didn't see the opportunity, the other one did. And so, with that story, I see great opportunity for our function. I see great opportunity for the role that we can play in our organizations to drive that symbiotic relationship and that shared value impact, and I see a great opportunity for us to really reimagine how society can be and to create together with other partners, chief sustainability officers, chief financial officers, the people with data, to really create a better continent, but also a better world. Thank you.

Laura Jones: 29:36
Thank you so much.

Andisa Ntsubane: 29:38
With pleasure.

Laura Jones: 29:38
Yes. Absolutely. Alright, Andy. So, well, that's all the time we have for today. Thank you so much for joining.

Laura Jones: 29:44
If you would like, please check out the show notes. I'm going put all of Andisa's amazing accomplishments as well as resources where you can go to learn more about supporting the African agenda and using your own voice and your own personal purpose to do good in the world. Thanks for joining Opinion Party. And remember, everyone's invited to the party. So please like, share, and leave some comments.

Laura Jones: 30:09
I'd love to hear from you. That's all for now.