Opinion Party

Laura Jones (00:01)
Hey everyone, welcome back to Opinion Party. I'm your co-host Laura Jones. And Opinion Party is the podcast where we dispel the most pervasive myths in modern marketing through the cold, cruel lens of data. And today we have a great one called the Authenticity Trap, when real feels fake. And yeah, we're just gonna be talking about the intersection.

Jason Gaikowski (00:05)
and I'm Jason Gaikowski.

Laura Jones (00:27)
of brands, authenticity, which is actually an attribute in our brand asset evaluator study. So we some good data as always for you on that. And then as always, we'll be talking to one of our guests. So Jason, what has been going on in the world of authenticity and what does the data say?

Jason Gaikowski (00:46)
Well, it's a damn fine question, Laura. It's a damn fine question. You know, this topic of authenticity, it's kind of been on my radar for, God, at least a dozen years now. I think it got really popular, at least that I was first aware of. It got really popular in kind of the sport, outdoor, lifestyle kind of space. And as I'm sure you know, and it's really,

Laura Jones (00:48)
It's a damn fine question, Laura. It's damn fine question. You know, this topic of authenticity, it's kind of been on my radar.

least a dozen years now. I think it got really popular, at least, that I was first aware of. It got really popular in kind of the sport, outdoor lifestyle kind of space. And as I'm sure you know, and it's really, it's really

Jason Gaikowski (01:15)
I can't walk into a conversation these days without the word authenticity being thrown around. And

Laura Jones (01:16)
blossomed. can't walk into a conversation these days about the word authenticity being thrown around. And...

Jason Gaikowski (01:24)
when you look at authenticity through the lens of BAV data, you just pull up the most authentic brands in the brandscape. you kind of get of a, like you get kind of a who's who. You get Cera-Ve V, Disney, Carhartt, Levi's, get Harley Davidson, Timex, Trader Joe's, Betty Crocker.

Laura Jones (01:24)
When you look at authenticity through the lens of DAV data, just pull up the most authentic rams in the ramscape, you kind of get a go, you get kind of a who's who. You get Sarah B., Disney, Carhartt, Levi's, you get Harley Davidson, Timex, Trader Joe's, Betty Crocker.

Jason Gaikowski (01:45)
You get this list of really powerful and iconic brands.

Laura Jones (01:45)
You get this list of really powerful iconic rams.

Jason Gaikowski (01:49)
you know, conversely, when you do the opposite, also, it gives you lot of face value. If you look at some of the least authentic brands, what you see is just a minefield littered with cryptocurrency, reality television shows, TMZ and Pop Sugar and Access Hollywood, and reality TV, right? You get Tinder and Real Housewives,

Laura Jones (01:49)
you know conversely when you do the opposite it also gives you a lot of face value if you look at some of the least authentic brands what you see is just a minefield littered with cryptocurrency, reality television shows TMZ and pop sugar and access Hollywood and reality TV right you get Tinder and Real Housewives,

Jason Gaikowski (02:14)
Botox, Hinge, Love Island,

Laura Jones (02:14)
Botox, Hinge, Love Island

Jason Gaikowski (02:17)
The Bachelor and The Bachelorette, they both make it equal opportunity in authenticity. There's no gender bias when it comes to authenticity. So when you look at the most authentic and least authentic, it kind of makes sense. And it would lead you to believe that like, heck yeah, I want in on this. But when you dig in a little bit deeper, what you find is,

Laura Jones (02:17)
the bachelor and the bachelorette, they both make it, right? Equal opportunity in authenticity. There's no gender bias when it comes to authenticity. So when you look at the most authentic and least authentic, it kind of makes sense. And it would lead you to believe that like, yeah, I want in on this. But when you dig in a little bit deeper, what you find is

Jason Gaikowski (02:43)
Authenticity is mostly a relevance and esteem

Laura Jones (02:43)
authenticity is mostly irrelevance and esteem.

Jason Gaikowski (02:47)
driver. And even then the correlations are moderate at best. You're looking at a correlation coefficient of 0.38 for relevance versus 0.45 for esteem. Right? So not a terribly large effect. And that is true even when you go into specific categories where authenticity plays a larger role.

Laura Jones (02:47)
driver. And even then, the correlations are moderate at best. You're looking at a correlation coefficient of .38 for relevance versus .45 for speed. So not a terribly large effect. And that is true even when you go into specific categories where authenticity plays a larger role.

Jason Gaikowski (03:12)
Right? Think beauty, think health,

Laura Jones (03:13)
Think beauty, think health.

Jason Gaikowski (03:15)
think sports and outdoors. It almost seems to be that the closer something gets to our body, the more authentic we want it to be. But even then, you find authenticity playing a role primarily in esteem and relevance. And as I've dug into this more and more, especially with the strength of relevance, it suggests to me that because we know

Laura Jones (03:16)
think sports and outdoors, it almost seems to be that the closer something gets to our body, the more authentic we want it to be. But even then, you find authenticity playing a role primarily in esteem and relevance. as I've dug into this more and more, especially with the strength of relevance, it suggests to me that because we know

Jason Gaikowski (03:42)
Because we know that esteem in particular is a lagging indicator, relevance is a leading indicator, it seems that authenticity may be something that we form perceptions around more via experience than through communications. There's something there. Now, you go a little bit further, I think it's very clear that authenticity is a good thing to have. But when you look at the strongest brands in the brandscape, Amazon,

Laura Jones (03:42)
Because we know that esteem in particular is a lagging indicator, relevance is a leading indicator, it seems that authenticity may be something that we find perceptions around more via experience than through communications. There's something there. Now, you go a little bit further, I think it's very clear that authenticity is good thing to have.

But when you look at the strongest brands in the brandscape, Amazon,

Jason Gaikowski (04:12)
Google, YouTube, Apple, iPhone, Amazon Prime, Samsung, Microsoft, and Bose. You find some really middle of the road levels of authenticity. Bose, shockingly to me, 55th percentile in authenticity. Middle of the road, iPhone, 59th percentile of authenticity.

Laura Jones (04:12)
Google, YouTube, Apple, iPhone, Amazon Prime, Samsung, Microsoft, and Bose, you find some really middle of the road levels of authenticity. Bose, shockingly to me, 55th percentile of authenticity. Middle of the road. Middle of the road. iPhone, 59th percentile of authenticity.

Jason Gaikowski (04:37)
Google, 53rd percentile on authenticity.

Laura Jones (04:37)
Google, 53rd percentile on authenticity.

Jason Gaikowski (04:42)
Right. And so it suggests to me that authenticity has a role to play, but it may be more about avoiding inauthenticity, right? That that's the authenticity trap that chasing authenticity for the sake of authenticity doesn't get you differentiation. We're looking at correlation coefficients of 0.13.

Laura Jones (04:42)
And so it suggests to me that authenticity has a role to play, but it may be more about avoiding inauthenticity. That that's the authenticity trap, that chasing authenticity for the sake of authenticity doesn't get you differentiation. We're looking at correlation for efficiency, point one, three.

Jason Gaikowski (05:07)
Right. And so authenticity, think the data suggests

Laura Jones (05:07)
Right. so authenticity, think the data suggests

Jason Gaikowski (05:12)
is sufficient, but may not be necessary. Right? It's about avoiding the trap of inauthenticity. And that's, that's what the data says to me.

Laura Jones (05:12)
insufficient, but may not be necessary. Right. It's about averting the trap of inauthenticity. That's what the data says to me. Yeah. And so fascinating that those entities and properties and brands at the bottom of the list, some of them are masquerading as brands that are trying to be nothing but authentic. Right. When you think about

reality TV or all of those types of behind the scenes stars, they're just like us types of shows that are in some ways real footage. People aren't buying it, right? And so it's a fascinating thing to unpack and nowhere more do we see this in the world of influencer culture, in the world of social media as well.

Jason Gaikowski (05:38)
Right?

Laura Jones (06:05)
where the name of the game is authenticity, right? But to your point, it's really about how do you become authentic and how do you not fall into the tropes of the tradwives and really sugarcoat things in spirit of getting eyeballs and creating content. And so, yeah. I don't think that authenticity can be manufactured.

Jason Gaikowski (06:26)
Yeah, I don't think that authenticity can be manufactured.

And I don't think that you can use authenticity as a bait to try and attract eyeballs. The data suggests that the bachelor and the bachelorette, it's an entertaining lie, but it's a lie nonetheless.

Laura Jones (06:34)
And I don't think that you can use authenticity as a bait to try and attract bad thoughts. The data suggests that the bachelor and the bachelorette, it's an entertaining lie, but it's a lie nonetheless.

Yeah, and a lie is a lie no matter how you spin it. But that said, I've got a really exciting guest to introduce in a moment here. yeah.

Jason Gaikowski (06:59)
Tommy Tommy.

Laura Jones (07:02)
And we'll bring her out, but I'm going to introduce and welcome to opinion party, Tina Cartwright. Hey, Tina. Yeah, absolutely. I want everyone to meet the extraordinary Tina Cartwright, who's not just a visionary creative director and devoted host, but also an unparalleled brand builder and sales leader.

Tina Cartwright (07:09)
Hi everyone, happy to be here.

Laura Jones (07:26)
And nowhere do we get to the real real more so than motherhood and she is in fact navigating the demanding role of a full-time mother of two and launching and growing Rebranding motherhood into a global powerhouse propelling it from 200 to an astonishing 70,000 followers in an unprecedented six months

Tina also has experience being a Titan in the corporate realm, spending over 16 years at Procter & Gamble, shaping the destiny of global consumer brands from Pampers to Olay. And her expertise has fueled growth and expansion of some of the world's most iconic brands. So it's the perfect, perfect combination and expertise that we have here today with Tina. And now as the founder of rebranding motherhood, Tina pours her passion into purpose-driven brand that has swiftly grown into a global phenomenon.

And she's building a community of mothers with the mission of unlocking maternal mental health support, maternal healthcare resources, and unfiltered education surrounding the female body and motherhood. Most importantly, liberating mothers to cultivate the village within themselves. Tina, welcome to Opinion Party.

Tina Cartwright (08:40)
thrilled to be here, loved everything you said at the top. I've got a thousand and ten opinions to bring to the opinion party. Let's go. I'm ready. I'm ready.

Laura Jones (08:50)
Yeah, well I mean I don't think we

can talk about the topic of motherhood without just talking about us as parents and moms. Tell us a little bit about where you are in that whole journey of motherhood.

Tina Cartwright (09:02)
Yeah, so I've got two littles. I've got a three year old and I have a six year old going on 45. Anyone that has anybody at that age, you can appreciate the consternation of a young toddler turning into a little kid. And it's just been really this beautiful, beautiful experience. I would say it's filled with a lot of learning, a lot of trying to uncover.

but mostly just really appreciating this grounded perspective and healing that motherhood really unlocks for you, which as you talked before is really not an image that's shared very broadly around motherhood in our society. So that's kind of where I'm at. We're just trying to get people to school. We're trying to get people to stop peeing in the bed. We're trying to get people to like eat their vegetables.

You know, just like basic shit over here. That's what we're up to. what we're up to.

Laura Jones (09:58)
Yeah,

yeah, for sure. Well, it's kind of exciting. I, it sounds like you're on the beginning end of the spectrum of the journey. I'm more in kind of like the middle field, let's see. You know, if being a mom ever ends, I don't think it does. And so my kids are fourth grade and seventh grade, 10 and 12, two girls. And yeah, we're basically same thing, trying to get the veggies in, getting a little bit more into the space of.

Tina Cartwright (10:11)
It does it.

Laura Jones (10:26)
overall wellbeing, trying to keep everyone just happy in their activities and not spending too much money at Sephora. So there's that. And recently, there's been a lot of, I'm noticing the outside influence of the world and this idea of what are the latest trends and how are they kind of filtering through from the content creators into

Tina Cartwright (10:35)
Yes. Yes.

Yeah.

Laura Jones (10:53)
the kids that have social media down to the kids like my daughters who don't have social media yet. But then they kind of still do because YouTube shorts is social media and you can't disconnect it from YouTube where they're also watching school videos. So it's a whole minefield we're navigating here. And yeah, shit gets real real and it's messy, right?

Tina Cartwright (11:13)
Railroad.

It's super messy. I mean, you talked about just the influences that are around our children and really around all of us are shaping the narratives. And so to your point, that's why I really felt called and required because I do have two little girls who are gonna be joining into what I hope is a world, sorry, Jason, that's not a patriarchy, that at minimum prioritizes the needs of not just men, but also women,

Laura Jones (11:39)
Yeah.

Tina Cartwright (11:45)
equal

needs of humanity, really. It's not a gender thing. It's just equal needs of all humanity. And it starts with us creating content that actually shows that world, that provides that imagery. So it's critical. I mean, it's a lot of pressure, but it's on us. We got to do it.

Jason Gaikowski (12:03)
No, need to apologize to me, Tina. mean, I'm, I'm proud dad to an extraordinary 18 year old daughter who has no interest in social media is confused why anybody would have an interest in social media. Doesn't care about technology, just crushes school and is getting ready to choose from which among the eight colleges are bidding for her services. So it's, you know, I want, I want nothing more but for a Brighton.

Laura Jones (12:03)
Absolutely.

Jason Gaikowski (12:31)
bright and opportunity rich future for her.

Laura Jones (12:32)
and opportunity to reach future for

it.

Tina Cartwright (12:36)
So you're like at least like you're going through a whole nother phase of parenting by the way, like the net like the nest is now Emptying I was just saying the other day was like, how am I supposed to go back to this life where I have time again? Isn't that like this crazy thing that parenthood does to us like you live your life You finally figure out how to like live your life with no time and then all of sudden you get endless time back You have to figure it out

Laura Jones (12:36)
Yeah.

Jason Gaikowski (12:40)
NAH!

I mean, you

Laura Jones (12:58)
I mean,

Jason Gaikowski (12:58)
know, but let me, let me give you a, let me give you some flip side here. Let me give you some, some, painful versions of authenticity.

Laura Jones (12:59)
you know, but let me give you a, let give you some flip side here. Let give you some painful versions of authenticity. I have put a number to how many weekends we have remaining until she graduates from high school. Which is great because we've got the father daughter bucket list we've gotta work our way through. But it's horrified, right, because the...

Tina Cartwright (13:03)
Hit me.

Jason Gaikowski (13:08)
I have put a number to how many weekends we have remaining until she graduates from high school.

Which is great because we've got the father daughter bucket list we've got to work our way through. But is horrifying, right? Because the

data suggests that she and I have spent approximately 80 % of the time that we will ever spend together has already been banked. Right? And so like shit gets real and it gets real real quick. But

Laura Jones (13:28)
The data suggests that she and I have spent approximately 80 % of the time that we will ever spend together has already been banked. Right? And so, like, shit gets real and it gets real real quick.

Tina Cartwright (13:37)
hits.

Laura Jones (13:42)
it's an interesting, very, very exciting time for her. It never gets less bewildering. If you're not confused, I'm just confused by the time and she's extraordinary and...

Jason Gaikowski (13:43)
It's an interesting, very, very exciting time for her. It never gets less bewildering. If you're not confused, I'm just confused all the time and she's extraordinary and that's

just how it is.

Tina Cartwright (14:00)
That's a good, a good, that's a good imagery. The reminder is where I'm at in parenthood, the time is, is infinite with my kids. And it's like a good reminder that there is this point of finite time that will come in our parenthood journey. You're right.

Jason Gaikowski (14:16)
yeah?

If you do it right, they go off and have their own lives.

Tina Cartwright (14:20)
That's the goal. That's the goal.

Jason Gaikowski (14:23)
Right?

Laura Jones (14:23)
And one word to the wise, if and when you do get that little glimpse of freedom, you're just starting to have a little too much time on your hands. Do not under any circumstances get a puppy. Let me just tell you. Because that is the trap that I just walked into. And no, I'm just kidding. It is really, really fun and it's

bringing me back all the feels of newborn baby snuggles and, but yeah, it's definitely a setback. There's no diapers involved, but I kind of wish there were actually to tell you the truth. Well, awesome. Well, it sounds like we've got a big broad spectrum of all of the phases of parenthood, at least from an adolescent perspective represented. So there should be really great convo. Tina, I'm really curious. Can you talk a little bit? You've almost...

You're in your second act here, having lived a life as a marketer and as a person working in retail and for big multinational corporations and maybe even marketing to mothers. And now on the flip side, as a leader and as a change maker, can you talk a little bit about the transition, how you stepped from one world into this world?

Tina Cartwright (15:38)
Yeah, I would love to. mean, honestly, it was a little bit of like a slower sidestep, then as any entrepreneur will tell you, just then happens overnight. time for story time, everybody. Settle in for the journey. Love a good story time. So I had a really interesting career in corporate America. I always remind people and tell people as a woman of color,

Jason Gaikowski (15:53)
I love story time.

Tina Cartwright (16:04)
It was always riddled with some challenges, you know, trying to bring, as we talk about authenticity, my full self into work on a daily basis. And so I'd already started getting interested in this whole startup world, spending really the majority of my career at a CPG company. And I started wondering like, okay, I want to get in this. So I had an opportunity to jump ship, to go into a startup.

And I was able to co-lead our enterprise sales team and I got to sit with C-suite executives and talk to them about how we're going to put moms back to work. This is at the mom project. And then during, I think it was like 2021, it was during the pandemic, which is a black hole for all of our brains. So like unclear on like the exact year. But it was when there was like a broader tech recession and a lot of layoffs were happening and me and myself and my team had been like, oh, from the mom project. I was a free agent.

And at the time I was also a consulting producer on a docu-series in development called The Fourth Trimester. And my DP, for those who aren't in media, that's a director of photography, who's also one of my best friends and a mom, had asked me, she's like, yo, Tina, what do you wanna do for this series? You're a free agent, we can kiki and cry about it, but now you gotta go figure out what you're gonna go do. So if you can go do anything, what is it? And I was like, wait, she's like, yes, you can do anything.

Laura Jones (17:11)
you

Tina Cartwright (17:29)
And I said, I want to rebrand motherhood. 9 p.m. over a glass of wine. And we were just keeking and she's like, go do that. And I said, the patriarchy, I can't go do this by myself. There's absolutely no way I can go do this by myself. And she was like, the fuck, you can. You can do anything you want to do. And you're actually the exact person to go do this. So go and do this. And then it'll be done. And I was like, wait, what? And she sprinkled some more of her best friend energy on me and was just like,

you know, go into the world. And then shortly after I transitioned my personal Instagram page and literally just took all the stuff that was in me and this authentic voice that has been trying to scream out of me for many, many years and put it all into this platform and this conversation in this community that I just really felt like hadn't had an authentic voice to it.

and provided what I felt like authenticity meant to me and what I felt like unsanitized imagery looks like in motherhood to me and put it out there. And it quickly started growing. I quickly started getting like really incredible opportunities with huge brands in the motherhood space, Parallel, Needed, FetisBeth Organization, the Motherhood Center. And all of a sudden I'm like, wait a minute, this industry is saying my perspective is...

unique and different. Hold up, hold up. And I was in the place where I had come, which is kind of like an opposite mind shift for many entrepreneurs, because I think most entrepreneurs that come into this space that don't have the corporate background I have, they're fully dedicated on a product and revenue, product and revenue. And I was kind of dedicated on, I want a really cool ass brand that's super fricking authentic.

Laura Jones (19:11)
And I was kind of dedicated on, I want a really cool ass brand that's super fricking authentic,

Tina Cartwright (19:16)
that means fucking something. And then I'll build all the revenue and the product and shit later. But I really want to like build it fundamentally with all the critical brand

Laura Jones (19:17)
that means fucking something, and then I'll build all the revenue and the product and shit later, but I really want to like build it fundamentally with all the critical-

Tina Cartwright (19:26)
fundamentals that we all know are required so that I can get into these rooms and have these conversations, figure out what feels like the work I want to provide into the world and then launch it. And so that's where I'm at now is I've really kind of wrapped my arms around what product that's going to be. But honestly, I just dove in.

What was the sidestep? The sidestep was like diving in head first, which motherhood prepares you for perfectly. You know, it prepares you perfectly to dive into something, not knowing what the hell you're gonna do with a human being strapped upon your shoulder that you're supposed to keep alive while keeping yourself alive and like figuring out how to live in the world that you thought you had once mastered completely differently.

Laura Jones (20:08)
It's kind of crazy, right? And I'm sure you were just seeing so many depictions of what motherhood was before you had children and then when you first became a mom. What was it exactly that you kind of saw that was just kind of like, that's not what it's like? Tell us a little bit about that inauthenticity that it seems like you're pushing against.

Tina Cartwright (20:10)
Yeah.

Yes.

Yes, I mean, perfect example for the millennials and everyone around was this movie that hit called Knocked Up.

Okay, y'all remember it, Jude Apatow, we love him and all his films that came through it during the millennial era. And I'll never forget this moment that so many moms can connect to, which is the damn baby registry. Hollywood has portrayed to mothers, there's one thing and one thing only you need to do to prepare for motherhood. And that is a baby registry filled with endless shit you will never actually use, which you'll never actually be able to find when the baby's here. But if you do this one thing, you are gonna be prepared to come out of the hospital with your whole vagina.

a ripped open, you're in a diaper, the baby's in a diaper, this actually your first matching outfit. They don't even tell you that shit. That's your first mommy and me baby matching outfit. And I was just like, wait a minute, what? Because I actually feel like I was really engaged in the category. I was trying to learn. I was trying to prepare myself. I did my baby registry. I really was doing the research. And then when I came out, I was like, all the things that I was told, which is mainly registry, like

Laura Jones (21:27)
did my major extra really, really first. And then when I came out, was like, all the things that I was told, which is mainly registry,

like didn't prepare me for anything. I don't need any, like at all. I need meals, I need postpartum care, I need mental health, I need my body's not working. There's this thing called a public floor therapist. What is that? How do I find one? Oh, weird, my insurance? My amazing insurance? The corporate America doesn't even cover that?

Tina Cartwright (21:36)
didn't prepare me for anything. And frankly, I don't need any of this stuff, like at all. I need meals. I need postpartum care. I need mental health. need my body's not working. There's this thing called a pelvic floor therapist. What is that? How do I find one? weird. My insurance? My amazing insurance from corporate America doesn't even cover that?

Wait a minute. And it just started becoming very, very, very real, real quick that

I didn't know where I was. I was living in this literally this alternative universe. I'm not even the same human anymore. And I just was left with no tools and nothing to survive. And so to me, it's really this baby registry thing that that was this cue of the canary in the coal mine that some shit is not real. And it's not matching up to my experience.

Laura Jones (22:24)
I mean, be honest, Jason, did you read the baby books? Did you read them? Nobody reads the baby books.

Jason Gaikowski (22:32)
Laura, I am not a good representative example of that sort of thing. Did I read the Big Books? Yes, I

read five of them. Because if you go five books deep on any topic, you know most of what you want to know. A wonderful client of mine, when she learned that I was going to be the father of a daughter, gave me a book called The Female Brain, which I read. So...

Laura Jones (22:42)
I read five of them. if you go five books deep on any topic, you know most of what you want to know. A wonderful scientist of mine, when she learned what I was going to be the

Tina Cartwright (22:56)
Love this!

Laura Jones (22:57)
which I read. So

Jason Gaikowski (23:01)
Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sure that I'm sure that I'm an outlier on these kinds of topics. But

Laura Jones (23:01)
yeah, I'm sure that I'm sure that I'm an outlier on these kinds of topics. You're an ally, Jason. You've always been an ally. That's amazing.

Tina Cartwright (23:07)
You are an outlier. And I like that.

Jason Gaikowski (23:09)
I mean,

Tina Cartwright (23:10)
I love that though, for us.

Jason Gaikowski (23:10)
look, like, yeah, like the reality of the motherhood versus the promise of motherhood, right? Like Laura, you and I often talk about the gap between brand promise and brand experience.

There is a massive gap between motherhood brand promise and motherhood customer experience. I it is a big gnarly fascinating gap. Like, but there are moments, right? There are moments. I sometimes talk about the Disney experience. If we're honest, the Disney experience, that's a lot of recreational line standing.

Laura Jones (23:26)
love a whole brand promise and

Tina Cartwright (23:32)
There it is, well said.

Laura Jones (23:33)
There's a big, gnarly, fascinating gap. But there were moments. There were moments. I sometimes talk about the Disney experience.

honest, the Disney experience, that's a lot of recreational line-standing

Jason Gaikowski (23:53)
in uncomfortable weather to pay way too much for really, really mediocre food with little moments of magic sprinkled throughout. And I'm just a dad, so I don't know, but I'm like, God, I think parenthood and I think motherhood. I think there's a lot of that. It's just a whole lot of messy, annoying, bewildering shit.

Laura Jones (23:53)
in uncomfortable weather to pay way too much for really, really mediocre food. With little moments of magic sprinkled throughout. And I'm just a dad, so I don't know, but I'm like, parenthood and I think motherhood, I think they're a lot of that. It's just a whole lot of messy, annoying bewilderingship.

Tina Cartwright (24:10)
Yeah.

Jason Gaikowski (24:17)
And then you get these little moments.

Laura Jones (24:17)
And then you get these little moments.

Jason Gaikowski (24:21)
Right?

Laura Jones (24:21)
Yeah.

Tina, why do think there is such a disconnect? And I love how you framed it up, Jason, is kind of like the expectation and then the experience. Why do so many brands get it wrong? Or even a lot of creators these days, just why is everyone trying to create these unrealistic images out there in the sake of authenticity?

Tina Cartwright (24:43)
Yeah, I mean, I really think that there is so much isolation that happens in motherhood, which is one of the reasons why I felt like one of the major anecdotes to addressing this issue is to provide unsanitary, unsanitized imagery and actually show it. Because to me, the biggest thing that like comes to light in my head when I think of this is the fact that policymakers are confused around why we need parental paid leave, why both caregivers need

time off to bond. The fact that your whole body, there's no break during maternity leave. Like your body is broke down. You know what I mean? Like you are literally building your body back physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally. All of your relationships are changing. And so many mothers are carrying the invisible load that is breaking their backs. The amount of unpaid labor,

from us doing all of the volunteer, do you know 80 % of the volunteer hours in the world are done by moms? Okay, the PTAs, the volunteers, all this stuff. We are carrying this on our backs and we aren't telling anybody about it because society shames the fuck out of us for not showing up and doing it perfectly, not meeting all of these expectations that no one's gonna meet on our own and then without having any of the resources and education. Just because mothers are the childbearing creatures.

Laura Jones (25:43)
Hmm.

Tina Cartwright (26:07)
In our humanity does not mean like, you know, what do they call it? The matrix where they like used to I don't even know people know who the matrix is anymore But like where they would like put this thing in your head and like upload you with all this information moms women female birthing people We are not uploaded with this information So but the society expects us to be and assumes that we are so there's even more shame when we're not meeting these expectations when we're not showing up to the table and doing what

this imagery has shown us that's really lasted since the 50s of mothers just like showing up in their little high heels and their vacuum and a cocktail and lipstick with this like perfect cigarette, just doing all the shit, smiling, smiling. Like we're still smiling through the tears and the cries and the tear and all of the pain. And so that to me is really where the breakdown begins, starts and ends is that we do not even understand what motherhood means.

Laura Jones (26:53)
And so that to me is really where the breakdowns begin, start, and end, is that we do not even understand what motherhood means.

Tina Cartwright (27:02)
Okay, Jason, you're one of those like woke dads that's like in it, okay? And you get it, but so many people in, and especially people that are gonna be going on the journey, the mothers, we have no idea what it really is. And then moms aren't even sharing it because of the shame, because of this like residual guilt. And so that's

Laura Jones (27:02)
Okay, Jason, you're one of those like both dads that don't get it, okay? You get it. But so many people, and so many people that have been going on the journey with mothers, we have no idea what it really is. And then mom aren't even sharing it because of the shame, because of this individual guilt. And so that's...

Tina Cartwright (27:22)
really where I feel like it explodes and why it's so critical for us to share one of my most viral pieces of content.

that I shared on my page that had over a million views was me crying in the car after some shit just fell and fought the part in motherhood. It was my first trip I was ever gonna take away from the kids. I was supposed to be going out of the country. My kid's school called me with some insane emergency. I had to leave Boston Logan Airport. I live in Maine, y'all, so I had to literally get out of the airport line.

get out of the airport, pack my bags, back into the car, drive 90 minutes back to Maine to go meet my kid at hospital for a broken thermometer that the school nurse couldn't read, okay? Like that kind of shit. And then my husband also got sick at the same time and it was just overwhelming. I was like, I've done everything for everybody. It took me a week and a half to get to the airport to go on this trip, to do something for myself and now I can't even go. And I was bawling and I was just telling the world like, this is what motherhood looks like.

This is the sacrifices. Nobody understands the pain, the losses, the things that we have to say no to despite giving everything that we even have in the name of motherhood. And so I lost where your question was, Laura. Like I'm on my soap box, which I oftentimes get, but I think that's really the breakdown is that no one knows what it actually means to be a mom. We don't know. We really don't know. Like the realities of it.

Laura Jones (28:34)
name of motherhood. And so I lost where your question was, Laura. Like I'm on my soapbox.

Tina Cartwright (28:53)
And so as a result, we're just left with more imagery that's sharing something that's not related because there's no one to scream from the roof to say, hey, hey, hey, that's not actually it. That's not actually what motherhood looks like. This is what it looks like. And then once we show what it really looks like, it'll be very clear to society exactly why we need paid leave, exactly why maternal healthcare matters, exactly how we can support and make safe environments for people to give birth in hospitals, especially people of color.

Laura Jones (29:21)
Yeah. And you bring up some really good points, which is maybe brands just aren't brave enough to jump into the unsanitized waters. And are we doing a disservice, right? In terms of marketers, you've all seen what all of the depictions of even just women and gender and specific stereotypes have done to historically underrepresented and also just, you know,

groups that have been on the margins of society and and we're doing it to mothers as as well. I mean, I can't tell you the amount of times as a creative strategist that I either wrote a brief or saw a creative brief brief that said something like win X like win the holidays, win back to school. You know, it's kind of win dinner time as if motherhood is just

this game that has winners and losers. And I think you bring up a really good point, which is.

Tina Cartwright (30:21)
Yes.

It is survivalist.

We are literally Hunger Games. Like we're trying to fucking survive in that shit. Ain't nobody trying to win back to school, the holidays, motherhood. We are literally trying to survive. And Brand should be like, how do you help moms thrive? Like to your point, like how do you change the paradigm for what you're actually solving for? Sorry to interrupt you Laura, but I'm like.

Jason Gaikowski (30:49)
Well, you know, the thing that you're, the thing that you're tapping into and like that I've observed is that

Laura Jones (30:50)
100%.

Jason Gaikowski (31:01)
Similar to this notion of authenticity, brands have a long history of leveraging aspiration. And they're specifically creating aspirational ideas or aspirational ideals.

Laura Jones (31:01)
Similar to this notion of authenticity, brands have a long history of leveraging aspiration. And they're specifically creating aspirational ideas for aspirational ideals

Jason Gaikowski (31:21)
that offer the promise of a resolution to the authentic struggle that mom is experiencing day in and day out.

Laura Jones (31:21)
that offer the promise of a resolution to the authentic struggle that mom is experiencing day in and day out.

Jason Gaikowski (31:30)
Your house is a freaking mess. This paper towel will give you a sparkling clean kitchen, right? Like your skin is all out of whack because your hormone system is all in flux. This facial cleanser

Laura Jones (31:30)
your house is a freaking mess, this paper towel will give you a sparkling clean kitchen. Right? Like, your skin is a lot of lack because your hormone system is uninflux. This facial cleanser

Jason Gaikowski (31:49)
will give you that youthful pre-pregnancy glow, right? And on and on and on and on. And I think brands have so over leveraged

Laura Jones (31:49)
will give you that euphor-free pregnancy glow. Right? And on and on and on and on. And I brands have so over-leveraged

Tina Cartwright (31:53)
yes. yes.

Jason Gaikowski (32:00)
an aspirational version of authenticity that they have fallen into the authenticity trap where like what they're offering to the world is the equivalent of reality TV or TMZ, right?

Laura Jones (32:00)
an aspirational version of authenticity, that they have fallen into the authenticity trap where, like, what they're offering to the world is the equivalent of reality TV or TMZ. Right?

Tina Cartwright (32:14)
yes yes yes

yes

Laura Jones (32:17)
And I think that's why you're seeing this kind of unvarnished, unfiltered...

Jason Gaikowski (32:17)
And I think that's why you're seeing this kind of unvarnished, unfiltered,

more real, real kind of imagery and messaging, like really, really working, like with mothers and beyond mothers, right? Like the term raw authentic, raw authentic, which I learned only a couple of months ago. Like, I think people want the real, I think they want the raw authentic.

Laura Jones (32:25)
more real, real kind of imagery and messaging, like really, really working, like with mothers and beyond mothers, right? Like the term, Raphantic, Raphantic, which I learned only a couple of months ago. Like, I think people learn for real, think they learn for Raphantic.

Tina Cartwright (32:47)
You're 100 % right because within motherhood, the real anecdote, this is point of view of one, I guess, plus 73,000 other people that I guess agree, but it's education, it's resources, and it's community. And I'm gonna hit you with a couple of things you just mentioned, right? So you mentioned, your hormones are all out of whack, get this skincare. Actually, we should be teaching people that perimenopause happens at age 35.

You might actually be trying to have a kid right now and your hormones that you used to think you knew got totally out of whack when you had the baby. They're now in perimenopause. Do you know what perimenopause is? Let's talk to you about that. And maybe the skincare item will be supporting you, but let's educate you on what's actually happening with your body so that it's one less thing that you're spiraling out about and shaming yourself and guilting yourself that you're doing something wrong, right? Another example, like,

driving more to the patriarchy. Hey, your house is dirty. Here's a cool little paper towel that's gonna help you clean it. No, that's not helpful. Actually tell me the mess is okay. How about you tell me that? How about you acknowledge that I have 1,029 things to do today and you probably haven't done any of them, but guess what? If you did have to clean, this paper towel is literally gonna take like 40 minutes or whatever, 40 % off your cleaning time and give you time back to give a shit about yourself, mom, because I know you haven't had time to.

It's just that simple, simple twisting to start helping and supporting moms because they're tired. They are literally fed up. think I'm not trying to get political and I'm not trying to sway us this way, but I think that's why we saw such a yell and an outrage, especially from moms, birth workers, reproductive justice advocates, really yelling out during this past election because they are done.

not being heard, they are done trying to survive. are done having doulas trying to like pick up the breakdowns of the healthcare system that's like broken in systematic oppression and killing moms at a 3X clip, black moms at a 3X clip. And so I think just really shifting the space, mothers are yearning for it. And to be brave enough, I think brands have to do it. And then a brand that I think has done a really incredible job.

is someone I've had many conversations with, which is the CEO and founder of Freida, Chelsea, who's built amazing brand. And she was really the forerunner on giving us unfiltered imagery around motherhood, which is now a decade ago. can't even believe it. It feels like that brand just came out, but it's critical. And mothers are controlling the economy. So like, let's get it together, brands, right? It's time.

Laura Jones (35:26)
but it's critical and mothers are controlling your product. So like, what's the thing to have it? Yeah, I remember

that brand knows Frida, I think was maybe one of the first products, because I've, 10 and 12 that tracks. And it was actually, there was something that was so authentically real and gross about that product. It was literally, if I remember correctly, kind of like a straw that you stuck in your kid's nose.

Tina Cartwright (35:36)
Yes! Yep. Yep.

Laura Jones (35:55)
and you sucked their snot out yourself, like through a straw. Which if that's not real about motherhood, and then I think there was one that you put up the kid's butt to make it fart. All the things. And you know, that's, to me, I think that was probably a watershed moment as well in my life as a...

Tina Cartwright (35:58)
Yep, that's real.

Yes! All the things! Yes!

Laura Jones (36:21)
a mom and actually being a motherless mom. My mom died when I was in my twenties. So I was really going through the whole journey by myself. you know, without influencers, social media influencers and Instagram, how does one do that? Right? I think there was the bump, right? It was like, they got you from the knot when you got your wedding registry to the bump where you did your baby registry. You know, they just told you shit like, your baby's the size of an avocado right now.

Tina Cartwright (36:38)
yeah? Yes!

Exactly.

Laura Jones (36:50)
Good luck, and you're just kind

Tina Cartwright (36:51)
Great.

Laura Jones (36:52)
of like, okay, let me figure this out. So yeah, Frida, it's amazing to see how that brand has grown and some of the other brands that have come up alongside of it as well. Bobby comes to mind, I think a brand that is really probably closely related to the feed, kind of getting babies fed, right? One way or the other, fed is best.

Tina Cartwright (37:04)
Yes.

Yeah, FED is best. does it. Yeah,

FED is best notion because there's so many, well, mean, just breastfeeding in general is just like insane labor of love, right? I don't know if many people know this data point, but I love that we're talking data points because I'm all about data points. You know, it takes people 1800 hours to breastfeed. That is the same equivalent amount of time of a full time job that you're picking up on top of.

a full time probably job that you actually do have and then being a human and nobody talks about that. And then we put all this pressure on moms to say, the only right way for a baby is breastfeeding. And sometimes it doesn't work or it's just really difficult or it's making you miserable and it doesn't feel really connected to your journey. Even what you said, Laura, like I'm a strange, a strained from both of my parents.

And so entering into the motherhood journey, I didn't have a mother to go back on and ask questions. And there's so many women who are kind of reassessing their relationships with their mothers once they become a mom. And people aren't talking about that. And it really, I mean, for my brand, that's why it's been so critical in spawning this mindset of cultivating the village within yourself. Because society...

is not built and structured to give you a village. If you are financially wealthy enough or fortunate or privileged enough to even have a village, it still costs a lot of money. It's still a full-time job as you can appreciate Laura, right? Like finding good help, finding people to support you. I mean, that was harder than finding a fricking husband, okay? Like, holy shit, that was so crazy. Like, you know, then when they leave, it's it's endless. And so I think that's the other thing is like, we push this narrative of like,

it's so easy to be a mom. And then when it's difficult, say, well, it takes a village. you didn't know it's hard. It takes a village. And then so many moms are like, I'm a single mom. I'm a widow. I don't have a village. I don't have money. I just left her a recession. Look at our economy. there was a childcare desert at one point. I mean, you guys remember the headlines? Like, you couldn't even find childcare, even if you had the money to get it. Then there was a desert for formula.

Like if you could even get it. And so there's just all of these solutions. I get two of my quote fingers up solutions that are kicked forward and they're not real and they're not lasting and they're not anything a mom can take to actually unlock. And at the end of all of this, why are we talking about this? Like, why am I talking about all this? It's because for me, I think I can, I'm gonna pull you in this too, Jason, cause I feel like you're like, you know, dad goals over here. So I'm gonna give you that stamp for you that

Being a parent and raising and caregiving a child really for me was my first touch or first experience of enlightenment. However you want to define enlightenment, but it's really the space where you see yourself completely independent of your past, your future, your present. And it really allows you to reconnect and to really forge forward in the world in a new way with this incredible like power that you're empowered with.

And so, but you only can touch that when you have resources and you feel supported and you can, know how to feed your kids every day. You know how to work through the day and still have a part of yourself. So that's why I feel like the work I'm doing with rebranding motherhood is so critical because I think being a parent, being a caregiver is one of the most beautiful experiences once you can get through the pain and the challenges of just trying to get through it in our society.

Laura Jones (40:55)
Absolutely, Tina. you know, and talk about aspiration. I think maybe aspiration has changed, right? Maybe there's an aspiration that mothers certainly I have with aspiring to be able to show the struggle, to be able to be your authentic self and to let people see what it's really like. And it's going to take really a generation of women and men to allow

Tina Cartwright (41:12)
Yes!

Laura Jones (41:24)
these myths to be shattered, this imagery to put their fingers on the delete button and put their pen to the paper when it comes to looking at things like scripts and media and making sure that when we're putting cultural artifacts out into the world that are either perpetuating harmful stereotypes or really shattering those expectations, that we all take that responsibility.

Tina Cartwright (41:31)
You're right.

Laura Jones (41:53)
to create the new imagery for that. And that's when people like policymakers and brands can step up and take notice and say, there's actually an audience for this, right? Because at the end of it, that's what this is about, right? And it's important for brands to find their audiences, to find people to buy their products and services. But wouldn't it be great as well as they can also kind of contribute to this change making.

Tina Cartwright (42:04)
Yes.

Jason Gaikowski (42:20)
Yeah, I think that there are early indicators, right? So there's a piece of work that comes out of Brazil, a handful of years ago. It's one of my favorite pieces of work. I don't think it ever got the recognition, the industry that it deserved. Just very simply called the changing time song.

Tina Cartwright (42:20)
100%.

Laura Jones (42:27)
early indicators. Right? So there's a piece of work that comes out of work as well. handfuls years ago. It's one of my favorite pieces of work. I don't think it ever got the recognition the industry that deserves. Just very simply called the changing time style.

Jason Gaikowski (42:47)
And it was just a little lullaby that you would sing to your kid and play to your kid that was also teaching young mothers

Laura Jones (42:47)
And it was just a little lullaby that you would sing to your kid and play to your kid. It was also teaching young mothers.

Jason Gaikowski (42:56)
how to change a diaper. Right? Like end to end, all the steps to do it really, really well for the health of the baby. Right? And so just a wonderful piece of work that didn't deny, didn't assume that moms know how to change diapers.

Laura Jones (42:57)
how to change your diaper, right? Like end to end, all the steps to do it really, really well for the health of the baby, right? And so just a wonderful piece of work that didn't deny, didn't assume that moms know how to change diapers.

Jason Gaikowski (43:17)
recognized that it has to be done and for the health of the baby, it ought to be done well, right? And it was just a really lovely, lovely piece of work that I think spoke to an authentic human need for mothers that actually added real benefit to their experience, right? And I think it happens, unfortunately, I think it happens more by accident than by design at the moment.

Laura Jones (43:17)
recognized that it has to be done and for the health of the baby it ought to be done well. Right? And it was just a really lovely, lovely piece of work that I spoke to an authentic human need from others that actually added real benefit to their experience. Right? And I think it happens, unfortunately I think it happens more by accident than by design at the moment.

Tina Cartwright (43:37)
Yes.

Jason Gaikowski (43:45)
But I think it's an enormous opportunity for marketers, because mothers are obviously an enormous market.

Tina Cartwright (43:48)
It's huge.

Yes. mean, I oftentimes describe it to people as if the aspirations that society sells to us are that joining motherhood is going to be like a little brisk little jog, like not even a brisk walk. You know how you see those people in the mall that are just like walking for steps and shit. That's like what they sell you. The motherhood is going to be. Let me tell you what motherhood actually is. Okay. You're climbing Everest. Okay. And when you climb Everest,

There's a huge financial investment that you have to make. You have to have a physical readiness. You have to have a guide. You have to have a guide that takes you up that thing and brings your ass back down. And even still, you might not make it alive. And then when you get down, there's this whole decompression phase that's happening where you're trying to adjust back and decide that is the experience we have to sell and share.

That is the imagery that brands have to give out there in this world around motherhood. And then the aspirations you hit at Laura have to be adjusted and changed from the fifties. Moms need to know like how to do the mom shit. We don't know what the mom shit even is. Okay. I need to know how to change a diaper. I need to know what are the options for feeding. What are the different types of formula? I need to know why I would want something. I'm going to stick up my kid's nose and suck it out.

with a little cord and maybe get it in my mouth. Like, why do I need that stuff? Like, what's happening down with my reproductive system as a birthing person? What do I need to know to change that? What do I need to understand emotionally, hormonally? We need the education, then we need the resources that are available that can actually reinforce that, amplify that teaching. And then I need community to sit with somebody to be like, same here girl, that fucking sucked. Did that fucking suck for you too?

Laura Jones (45:30)
Then we need the resources that are available that can actually reinforce it. And then I need community to sit with somebody and like, stay in here and go, that's fucking stuff.

Oh shit, me too. Whoa, okay. That is the gift that keeps on giving for moms all day long. Just for a second, I'm not feeling alone in the void of this experience. As you said, it's never ending.

Tina Cartwright (45:43)
shit, me too. Whoa. Okay. That is the gift that keeps on giving for moms all day long. Just that second of not feeling alone in the void of this experience. Like you said, it's never ending.

You know, it's never gonna end. So that I can actually remain present and get back to those really cool, amazing memories that you hit us with at the top, Jason, around like what I want to do to enjoy the time with my children.

Right, Laura, what do I want to do to enjoy the time with this like really cool, rad individual that teaches me about myself, teaches me about my own ambitions, inspires me? I mean, it's really a beautiful journey, but we need a little help and education and resources and support to sometimes see that and to appreciate it along the way.

Laura Jones (46:34)
Absolutely. And Tina, I think you highlighted something that over and over, I just want to remind moms and parents and caregivers everywhere. Right now, we're being asked to come up with individualized solutions for systemic problems and kind of thinking that when you're the only person that's figuring out how to get across the country when you're still pumping and, you know,

all of these things, like, you're not the only person in that position, and it's not your fault that you're in that position. There are systemic barriers to inclusion with regard to moms in the workplace, in the corporate workplace, moms being founders, moms, know, profiting or monetizing even from domestic labor. We don't even need to talk about unpaid labor, but that's a whole other situation.

And really there's just such a diversity of experiences with motherhood that we've really only scratched the surface on. I'm curious, Tina, do you have a story from the amazing community of mothers that you've built that really sticks with you and has really underpinned the direction of the platform for you?

Tina Cartwright (47:50)
Yeah, I mean, there's so many stories. I think the biggest thread or throughput, so I recently had a really cool experience. This wonderful author and advocate in the maternal health space, Aisha Alva, wrote a book called A Mom Like That. And it was a memoir of her experience and her descent into postpartum psychosis.

Okay, so postpartum psychosis for those that don't know, I'm sure the times, the very few times you've ever heard about it are on the headlines. Okay, and it's always tragic. Okay, it's a mom that was pushed to the brink and took her life and likely the lives of her children and everybody's left saying, how did we get here? How did this happen? And so she wrote this memoir and she reached out to me and was like, yo Tina, like I wrote this book, like will you interview me?

And I was like, what? Like I'm actually scared to embark on this for my own mental health. Like, cause I've gone through postpartum depression, which is on the spectrum of a PMAD, perinatal mood and anxiety disorders, right? With anxiety and depression on both ends, I'd say postpartum depression's on one end. And I'd say that the really severe side of it would be postpartum psychosis would be the most severe side.

And so she's like, yeah, will you do this? And I said, I don't know. I don't know if I can do it. She's like, you absolutely need to do it. And so I read the book. She demanded I read the book before it came out. Her publisher sent me a copy and I read it. And it was this really beautiful experience that I actually challenged myself with of this fear that a lot of us have when going through this experience of motherhood to learn what's going to happen.

That's kind of the other thing. Society kind of pushes these narratives to be like scared of our bodies. Be scared of your reproductive system. Be scared of your cycle. You have a period. Be scared of it. know, like put fragrance in that shit. Like all these unnatural solutions, you know, like be scared of it all. Take a pill. Just stop it. Just stop it. Who cares what it does to your body? That's all I'm not going get on the soapbox birth control. And so this was one of those things. And so having this conversation with her really opened my eyes to

what happens in postpartum psychosis, which is really common, especially within women and moms of color, because of the systematic oppression of the healthcare system, because of the systematic oppression of racism. Like there's all these layers, so it's so much more natural. And so having that unfiltered storytelling has been instrumental for moms getting educated and feeling seen and frankly becoming the canary in the coal mine for our own communities.

as grandmothers, right, as side caregivers who are supporting a new mom, as an auntie who's coming in and supporting somebody, as a godmother, as an adopted parent, as somebody that's helping someone as a surrogate, a doula, a midwife. And so having these stories where we really tell these unfiltered experiences is so, it's just, it's really transformative. And I think that's what I've really seen. I mean, I've also talked to moms about losing their child.

One of my very good friends shared a story of loss of a child, which is important in motherhood because one in four pregnancies ends in a miscarriage. So one in four pregnancies ends in a miscarriage. Each of those is a loss. How are we helping people process through that? How are we really showing up and providing support? It's really the untold storytelling that kind of actually unlocks some of the additional support that's needed for moms and then really provides that thread of feeling seen in a new way.

That's been absolutely beautiful for me to witness and see.

Laura Jones (51:36)
That's so amazing and you've just touched on so many facets of the motherhood journey, some of which don't have anything to do with the actual mothering itself. Let's pose up with one last question. What's your vision for the future of motherhood advocacy? What's the next frontier that you hope to tackle?

Tina Cartwright (51:57)
Yes, so I mean, we first started off with sanitized imagery because critical, it's critical. It's like, how do you even know what's going on if you don't know what you're looking around you? And the next thing that we're debunking and unlocking is actually support and what support really means for moms. And so that is where I'm beyond, beyond, beyond excited to be launching our membership, the Village.

membership, which is live now. And so really what's going to be cool about this is the virtual experience, which we're going to be coming together across a syllabus for a year. I'm going to have the leading advocates, authors. I've got the Vagina Whisperer. I've got founders of really cool brands like Mamatero and other. Oh, no, you're fine. Oh.

Okay. No worries.

It's all good.

Jason Gaikowski (53:02)
You're not frozen to us, however.

Tina Cartwright (53:04)
Yeah,

you're alive for us.

I won't. Ooh, that rez. Yes. Just learned what the hell that fucking means. my gosh. How has it been, Mark? How's the conversation? Good?

Yes! Okay Mark, so your homework assignment, if you're not already, you better be following me on rebranding so we can support you. Okay.

this.

You're already doing the work. I love this. I love that. I love that. I feel like I love that, Jason. But I think too sometimes like society, like because it's so heavy, you can get in this mind fucked twisted place where like, do I even like this thing that's just fucked my whole thing up? Like no one's helping me. I can't figure it out. And I think that's what's so important is having these resources so you don't go in those traps. You know, you don't go down that rabbit hole.

Jason Gaikowski (54:00)
I just like my kid.

like hanging out with her.

Tina Cartwright (54:27)
Bye healthy.

Jason Gaikowski (54:28)
yeah,

I you know, had parents that tried awful hard given the circumstances that they came from, but ultimately weren't particularly good parents.

You know, and before I had a kid, I'm like, make sure you get your life to a place that you really like it. And then look around and go, I want to fuck this all up. And that is the right time. That is the right way to think about like a child is going to add. No child is going to fuck up everything. So just if you can look around and go, I want to fuck this shit up. That's the right time to have a kid.

Tina Cartwright (54:41)
I hear that.

Right?

Everything. Everything changes. Yep. For fun.

I fucking love that, by the way. I love that.

Laura Jones (55:03)
I think we just

got our pull coat for this episode.

Tina Cartwright (55:06)
Right? Yes, that's the hook.

Laura Jones (55:09)
So we're still rolling. Mark, I don't know what happened. I'm sorry. It said it wasn't recording on my end, but it might still be recording, but it looks like it started over. But I think we have a pretty clean break from the end of Tina, you talking about the postpartum psychosis question. And then I could just re-ask the what's your vision question. We could probably splice it together.

Tina Cartwright (55:28)
Yeah, just re-ask

it. I'll hit it again.

Laura Jones (55:31)
Because it's the most important thing, it's your thing. So, all right, we'll fix it in post. All right, so, we're still... Such a really important point, Tina. What's your vision for the future of motherhood advocacy? Let's leave it there. What's the next frontier you hope to tackle? And what can we expect from rebranding motherhood? Really excited for what that looks like.

Jason Gaikowski (55:38)
Five, four, three, two, one, roll.

Tina Cartwright (56:00)
Yeah, I mean, our first frontier was maybe one of the most challenging, which is eradicating the imagery. That's the foundation. It's like, how do you even know where you are in the sim? OK, the simulation and the zeitgeist, if you can't actually find something that feels connected to your authentic and your reality and your experience. But the next part of that is, OK, now I actually know where I am and I realize I've landed in this crazy foreign planet.

Help, I need support, I need support. Okay, so that is the next challenge we're unlocking. And I'm thrilled to officially, officially announce with you all that we are launching the Village membership. The Village membership is live. It is a curated sanctuary community experience created by Rebranding Motherhood.

you are going to have the ultimate community experience just for moms. And it's not just this experience where oftentimes we like to equate motherhood with being pregnant, but this spans across from age newborn, age zero, all the way to 18, and giving you resources, tips, and connecting you with leading experts to really maximize, amplify, and unlock your ultimate motherhood experience and journey. So what you can find in the membership is exclusive keynotes.

with authors, lactation consultants, coaches, therapists, filmmakers, founders, creators, basically all the people leading in the space of motherhood to educate you. We're also gonna have guided self-care practices. So each session will have body work, mind work, guided journaling sessions, vision boarding sessions. We're also gonna have reset workshops, growth workshops that are gonna happen at each session.

Laura Jones (57:22)
creators.

Tina Cartwright (57:43)
And then finally, we're going to have curated community experiences led by me, your host, Tina Cartwright, where we can actually engage with each other across our global community in the village. So this is available now, limited spots, y'all. I am beyond excited to really curate this super, super intimate experience for you to just learn. If you'd actually jump in with the people writing all the books, talking all the stuff.

Laura Jones (58:08)
people writing all the books, talking all the stuff,

Tina Cartwright (58:12)
the real change makers and really connecting with them one-on-one in your home with the kids to the side. can be bottom, you don't even need to have clothes on bottomless. Go camera off, go camera off. I don't care, just show up to support yourself and connect in so that you can really rebrand motherhood for

Laura Jones (58:12)
the real change makers, and really connecting with them one on one in your home, with the kids to the side. gonna lot of people, there's gonna be a lot of to clothes on bottles. Go camera on, go camera on, I don't care, just show up and support yourself and connect in so you can really reframe motherhood.

Tina Cartwright (58:30)
yourself.

Laura Jones (58:31)
I love that Tina sounds like a master class for motherhood. So exciting. Where can everyone find you?

Tina Cartwright (58:35)
Yes!

Everybody

can find me. First of all, you can Google me, check me out, Rebranding Motherhood. That'll take you right to my website. And then you can find me also on Instagram at rebranding.motherhood. You'll find me there. Slide into my DMs, y'all. I love to support and connect and I love to hear from y'all. So hit me up there and I really look forward to seeing you soon.

Laura Jones (59:01)
Amazing. Search it up as the kids say. Search up Tina. Well, thank you so much, Tina, for joining us at Opinion Party. It's been amazing to have you, amazing to really talk about this conversation, this really important topic, and helping most of all people to avoid this authenticity trap. So thank you so, so much.

Tina Cartwright (59:24)
Thank you. Namaste.

Laura Jones (59:26)
Yeah.

Alright, Jason. Wow, we got real there. I think that was one of our most real episodes yet.

Jason Gaikowski (59:31)
Wow.

all the for real and frankly, a treasure trove for planners and strategists that are interested in insights around what kind of experiences that mothers actually need.

Laura Jones (59:55)
I had the same exact thought. My planner brain was just kind of like, the first thing I would do if I heard this episode is I would put it straight into AI and I would just extract all of the amazing insight out of it. And then I'd go out in the real world and talk to some of these amazing moms. And of course, check out Tina, because this is really where the authenticity that us marketers brands.

are living with, right? Let's stop making this stuff up. Honestly, let's probably not use AI to write it because that's just going to reinforce the tropes, right? Let's just keep in mind the machines have been fed with the bullshit and lies of the past and the patriarchy. So we have to start from scratch, from having real conversations with real moms. There's so many brands out there that appeal to moms that are trying to get them. It's a lucrative market.

And do it the right way, do it the right way and really think hard about that question of aspiration versus authenticity. And we'll be really changing the world, I think, if we can get this right as marketers. I think you've done well and really, really closing the gap between brand finance and customer experience. think the authenticity trap can be an authenticity opportunity.

Jason Gaikowski (1:01:06)
Yeah, I I think if, I think if done well, and if really, really closing the gap between brand promise and customer experience, I think the authenticity trap can be an authenticity opportunity,

right? Where it's not about a false aspirational promise, but it is about getting to the real needs, the real motivations that people have identifying those problems and stepping in to help solve those problems.

Laura Jones (1:01:19)
right, where it's not about a class-after-racial promise, but it is about getting to the real needs, the real motivations that people have, identifying those problems and stepping in to help solve those problems.

Jason Gaikowski (1:01:33)
And I think that potentially is a big win for brands and a big win for mothers as well.

Laura Jones (1:01:33)
And I think that potentially is a big win for brands and a big win for the community. Well said, Jason. Well said. All right. Well, I think that's the end of our party here today. Thank you all so much for joining us on Opinion Party.

If you want to follow up on anything you heard today, as well as get information about Tina, her platform, her community, it'll all be in the show notes. If you like what you heard today, please hit that subscribe button and share it. And check us out at www.theopinionparty.com or bavgroup.com. Thanks so much. See you next time.

Jason Gaikowski (1:02:08)
Thanks for joining us.